Beginners

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strider77
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Re: Beginners

Post by strider77 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 9:27 am

Got to agree with you Daz-Zoot is the main man :D

How are you doing fella ?

How is the weight loss and exercising going these days ?
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 10:06 am

Hello Strider,

it is coming along ok actually. Had a blip, or rather a prolonged abstinence of anything beneficial to my health but back on track now lol

I am currently suffering with many massive blisters on my hands due to me gripping the handle like my life depended upon it :roll: so am giving myself the day off to see if they go down sufficiently for me to tackle it tomorrow. I do try to make the conscious effort at the start of my rows to just rest the handle lightly in my fingers but as the row progresses and I concentrate on just pushing through to the end I completely lose track of that and end up gripping like mad...suppose it will come with time and experience.

My technique is utter tripe, but being so overweight, it will never be what it should until I lose a lot more, and frankly, just giving myself a workout each day is the prime concern...if I sweat, can't breath, and have achy muscles, then I feel like I have done something.

My goal is 10k a day (not in one go, I can't manage that yet, but over 3 or 4 rows although I managed my very first 5k yesterday) for 7 days a week, but I think that is over-reaching possibly. I am aiming high with the hopes of bagging my 1st million metres by christmas, but we will see, I will just take that each day as to how I feel etc but I want this weight off yesterday.

I can honestly say it is probably the first time in nearly 18months of ownership that I have really understood the motivational value of the concept 2, rowpro and free spirits. It is fantastic and I have never come across any other section of the fitness industry or gym equipment that provides so much in this way... pretty shocked this isn't as mainstream as weightwatchers or anything else so seemingly ubiquitous. the million metres and the metreboard are really helping me do my bit as it were. Ultimately though, at this stage (barely week 2 of rowing with any real conviction) just making sure I get on it and do something is the prime concern.

Food and nutrition wise, clean lean protein, salad, vegetables and currently weaning myself of brews and onto water. Lost 5 pounds each week for the last 2 weeks and maybe 3-4 stone overall since my blip... still got a stone and a bit to lose to get to where I did last year and then it's all gravy from there on in...hmmm perhaps gravy is the wrong choice of word [-X , it's all lean protein and broccoli from there on in :lol:
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strider77
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Re: Beginners

Post by strider77 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:38 am

Well done Daz =D>

Once it becomes a habit, its easy , you don't have to think about it.

One thing I would suggest is that maybe 7 days a week may be overcooking it maybe !

Having the odd day off will let the blisters heal and you will be looking forward to the next workout, thats the way it works with me anyway.

As always please feel free to ignore this if you are happy with what you are doing.

The best motivation is seeing that dial on the scales registering lower and lower figures and realising that you are hitting better and better numbers on the PM display-row on gladiator :wink:
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 11:59 am

hI mate,

no don't be daft, I think you are spot on with regards the 7 day thing. I had a rest day Monday as I was aching badly (but had done some weights over the weekend), and today decided it isn't going to happen because of the blisters, but my thinking is, if I set myself 7 days, but manage 5, then that is a result kind of thing, well to be fair, 1 day is a result for me lmao

I was thinking solely about improving the times on a low distance such as 2k but then I gave my head a wobble and realised I need to be doing more for longer, not necessarily less but faster lol so in time I am sure I will focus back on times (I am itching to get enough rows under my belt to populate the signature generator) but at the moment trying to rack up the metres is my goal... besides, I am sure things will improve naturally purely as a consequence of doing more rowing...so fingers crossed

Thanks for the encouragement and advice, appreciate it, I haven't a clue really what I am doing lol
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Re: Beginners

Post by Rodger » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:27 pm

Hi Daz,

Well done on your first couple of weeks back on track. =D>

The firm gripping of the handle, resulting in blisters, is something I struggle with as well. All the technique instructions say you should have a loose grip especially on the longer distances, but that's something I'm just not able to do. If that's bad technique, I can't help it. I started rowing strapless which should help to improve technique. However, once those blisters burst open and you continue rowing anyway (through the pain :twisted: ), you get firmer flesh on your hands, so the problem resolves itself :)

I found it's relative easy to do much (or maybe even too much) in the first couple of weeks of a new fitness regime, when motivation is high, workouts are new(ish) and improvements are vast. Much harder to keep it going. I hope you have found a good routine that makes it easier to stick to when it all becomes harder.

When high on motivation I look around to improve the rowing experience. An online club is one thing, and maybe you would like to get into Rowpro (I haven't jumped on that train yet). And yesterday I bought myself a C-Breeze online which should give some cool air when doing those drives in these sweaty conditions. I read some good reviews about it, from Free Spirits as well (plummy, Jason (hewitt)). Hopefully it arrives before the warm weather turns into autumn :)

Best of luck with your weight loss!
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 1:59 pm

Hi Rodger,

Thanks for the advice and the well wishes, it is much appreciated..and needed lol

I am hoping the blisters won't return now they have obviously found their hotspots and calluses will develop there. I rowed through the last two days of them, but I have 9 over both hands and they are growing in size to where I can't bend one of my fingers so rowing isn't an option at the moment until they go down a bit. (I am trying not to burst them, I have diabetes and infection is a worry)

Yes the long term is the real battle, if I can keep it up for the duration then I will be happy... part of the reason why I never engaged much with the rower before was that i could only do a few hundred metres at most and I thought it was basically a waste of time until I had lost a bit of weight to enable to do a meaningful amount... so now I can do more and get a workout of it, I am hoping I don't fall off the wagon, but yes, it is a daily battle to keep yourself in the right frame of mind etc.

Yes i have rowpro, without that I don't think I would have even started at all, I knew before I bought the rower, that kind of software would would help immensely with the motivation and i can already see the benefits in that regard (i am not online rowing yet though, coming last is never my idea of fun lol)

Ah I bought a c-breeze but haven't fitted yet, i have a model E and while apparently it can be made to fit, it isn't designed for that model, I did have a cursory glance but tbh, it looks like it will be a very fiddly job for me so will have to do without it :( I would like to get it installed but I can't get my head around exactly how it should be tailored to the model E?

Anyway, no biggie in the scheme of things I suppose, as long as i keep getting on the rower and get a million metres this season then that's my prime concern...whatever comes later i will cross that bridge when I get there :)

Thanks again for your comments, always great to receive positive messages
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Re: Beginners

Post by plummy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:16 pm

Daz,
If you want me to take a look at your technique and at the same time help you fit the C-Breeze on your Model E - let me know. I'm not far away from you (Sale, Cheshire) and come up to Rochdale on business fairly often, I'm sure I could tie the two together somehow

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Re: Beginners

Post by gregsmith01748 » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:48 pm

Hi Daz,

A couple of thoughts for you to take in or ignore as you see fit.

I am not troubled by blisters on the erg, but I am in my boat. What I have found works best to manage them is to sterilize a needle with heat or surgical spirits, wipe down the blisters with surgical spirits, drain the fluid with the needle (4 pokes is what I do because they don't always drain well with fewer), then clean the area again with surgical spirits. The drained blisters rapidly turn into callouses if left alone, and the surgical spirits tend to harden the skin on the surface a bit too.

As for gripping too tight,the only advice I can give is to try some low rate rowing, like at 18 SPM or so. When you row at this rate, you have to concentrate on taking powerful strokes and the slow recovery gives one enough time to fiddle with the handle and remind oneself about holding it with hooked fingers instead of trying to crush it like a vise.

Since weight loss is your goal, you might couple this low SPM rowing with rowing at a slower pace so that you can complete longer distances at a lower stress level. If you go hard, you burn mainly carbohydrates, which you body asks you to replace in a urgent way. Rowing a bit easier will mainly burn fat and not trigger the same post workout hunger pangs.

If all of this sounds very "hand wavy", it is. The best way that I have found to measure workout intensity is with a heart rate monitor. It lets you exercise safely and helps to track the progress of your improvement.

Good for you for getting back into the swing of things after your blip and congratulations on your weight loss so far. As I said up top, if this advice doesn't ring true for you, fell free to ignore it. Everyone is different and what worked for me might not work for you.
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:51 pm

hi Plummy,

Wow, thank you very much for your extremely kind offer, that has blown me away really thank you very much indeed.

I am not really sure how I can tackle my technique as such given my sheer size, I am 190kg's :oops: and obviously my man belly lol gets in the way of tucking my knees into my chest on the recovery and catch, but I suppose my back posture and leaning and no doubt all manner of things I am not even aware of could benefit.

The c breeze would be good to get that fitted, it looked to me like I had to undo some parts of the rower and that intimidated me to the point where I just didn't explore any further.
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:21 pm

gregsmith01748 wrote:Hi Daz,

A couple of thoughts for you to take in or ignore as you see fit.
Appreciate all comments, like i said earlier, literally, I have no idea what i am doing with the rower or rowing realy, just jumped on and trying to find my way through it, all seems a bit of a mystery at the moment.
I am not troubled by blisters on the erg, but I am in my boat. What I have found works best to manage them is to sterilize a needle with heat or surgical spirits, wipe down the blisters with surgical spirits, drain the fluid with the needle (4 pokes is what I do because they don't always drain well with fewer), then clean the area again with surgical spirits. The drained blisters rapidly turn into callouses if left alone, and the surgical spirits tend to harden the skin on the surface a bit too.
ah we don't have any of that in, I will try to get hold of some, if it helps to toughen up the skin that is a very good thing..also with regards the sterile/cleanliness issue too. I did try rowing through it, blisters on the hand are definitely more able to be ignored than on the foot imo but these have grown with each day, obviously as i agitate them further etc.
As for gripping too tight,the only advice I can give is to try some low rate rowing, like at 18 SPM or so. When you row at this rate, you have to concentrate on taking powerful strokes and the slow recovery gives one enough time to fiddle with the handle and remind oneself about holding it with hooked fingers instead of trying to crush it like a vise.
20spm is my sort of maxed out effort. Obviously i can raise it for like 5 seconds, but to get through a workout (of any distance really) I try to keep it to 20 (which i know is ridiculously poor per se) I am usually ok at keeping it at that, perhaps down to 18 or 19 but any higher than 20 and my lungs give out before the end.
Since weight loss is your goal, you might couple this low SPM rowing with rowing at a slower pace so that you can complete longer distances at a lower stress level. If you go hard, you burn mainly carbohydrates, which you body asks you to replace in a urgent way. Rowing a bit easier will mainly burn fat and not trigger the same post workout hunger pangs.
my biggest issue at the moment, I am presuming because it is early on into my rowing career, but my legs and bum ache from the seat (akin to getting used to a bike seat again lol) my lungs are on the edge, but i could do more and my muscles and body wants to do more but it is the leg and bum issue which curtails it. Obviously, having 190kg's pressing down onto my bum and legs is what is probably the real cause here. I did buy a seat pad but tbh, I think that may actually make things worse for some reason (not a genuine godfrey sports one, just an ebay copy, but looks the same and fits the seat)

That's very good info regarding how the intensity equates to type of energy burned. I do have to say i have firmly got my eating under control, I have been working on that, and don't have carbs as such, well, certainly no refined or starchy carbs. I get whatever carbs i intake via apples and green leafy veg. I have definitely found since i started doing the 10k total each day that my energy levels have dropped off a cliff, so have upped my food intake. I was trying to deal with 500-1000 cals a day, but that just isn't possible while i am doing the rowing.

Having said all that, I am rethinking my diet to a slight extent and especially regarding carbs for energy. I am thinking of introducing porridge oats for breakfast (or any time really if i am hungry enough, need the energy and within a reasonable calorific intake for the day) which should go some way towards giving me the oomph I need, obviously 500-1000 cals of protein and salad just won't provide what I need to row...as i found out at the start of this week. The trouble I have with carbs, is my diabetes, at diagnosis by myself using a home monitor, my blood glucose was 28, i have since got it down to between 5-8 but that is with cutting out all carbs barring apples and above ground veg, so will need to do some work eating different carbs and testing my blood, I do know that malted granary multiseeded bread and potatoes send my bg sky high :(

If all of this sounds very "hand wavy", it is. The best way that I have found to measure workout intensity is with a heart rate monitor. It lets you exercise safely and helps to track the progress of your improvement.
My pm4 can't detect my chest belt heart monitor (supplied with the rower), I changed the battery but to no avail, however, I suspect the sheer amount of adipose tissue is what is preventing any communication between the monitor and the pm4 from occurring? I dread to think what my heart rate is during the exercise, it is circa 80 bpm at rest :(
Good for you for getting back into the swing of things after your blip and congratulations on your weight loss so far. As I said up top, if this advice doesn't ring true for you, fell free to ignore it. Everyone is different and what worked for me might not work for you.
Thanks very much mate :D No I think the advice is great, I mean the heart rate stuff and nutrition info is superb, even though at the moment my heart rate monitor doesn't seem to work for what I think is reasons of my body fat, in time hopefully that will change and will be keen to develop my training using heart rate so I can better follow some plans that are out there.
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 3:28 pm

p.s. if you look here and fast forward to 5 mins 41 seconds you can see my absolutely trashing proper technique lol and also see what i am working with with regards limitations to being able to perform the correct positioning...if you see what I mean. (video is just a small segment showing me using the rower)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2BjqYFSmvqI
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Re: Beginners

Post by Rodger » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:37 pm

Hello Daz,
I am obviously not an expert on rowing technique, but after watching that bit in your vlog, I think you could slow down the recovery, especially on the last bit (decelerating). Treating the recovery as a ehm, recovery in stead of rushing back forward, could give you more energy for the drive and row a bit longer overall.

I'm sure plummy or others more knowledgeable than me, will come in to make a better judgement soon.

By the way, setting up these videos, sure proves that you mean business with losing weight. ^O^
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Thu Jul 25, 2013 4:49 pm

Hi Rodger

I have read the recovery should be perhaps twice the speed of the drive? I haven't really tried slowing that bit down or trying to time it as it were in relation to the drive but I will try that.

I think tbh, it is probably hard not only to improve my technique, but at the moment, see exactly what my technique is as you can't really tell what my musculo-skeletal positioning is owing to the rather thick covering on top of that :oops: :lol:


RE meaning business, yes, that's it now, i'm not messing about, it's do or die... probably more literally than I realise.
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Re: Beginners

Post by plummy » Thu Jul 25, 2013 5:45 pm

Daz - I've seen a lot lot worse believe me and to be honest, it's not that bad really.

Before I spout anything I have to say that my technique isn't perfect by a long way as you need someone to look at you and point out the bad habits that creep in unnoticed (a bit like driving I guess). I need a refresh myself to be honest.

I do agree with Rodger that your film does look very "intense" and appears to be more of a race/time trial technique rather than weight loss. Putting aside the obvious re your knee position (that will only get better with weight loss but DO remember to start to straighten them up as, er, girth allows if I may be so bold), with the speed of the race up the slide to the catch you seem to be over-compressing and that isn't bio-mechanically very efficient and will put strains on your knees I suspect.

As alluded to above, getting on the machine and grinding out longer slower rows is the key to weight loss (along with all the good dietary habits etc).
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Fri Jul 26, 2013 11:07 am

hi Plummy,

Sorry for the tardy response, yes that was while i was still worrying about doing better 2k's as a mark of fitness instead of realising what I was playing at and being more in touch with reality lol

LOL girth works, I have heard a lot worse with a lot more venom and malice so no problems there mate. Ah right, thank you re over extending on my knees, they aren't in the best of conditions so anything I can do to help them will be a good move, for now and over the long term to try and head off knee replacements when older.

Yes, I will carry on trying to up my distances and times spent on the rower, I don't think I will ever do a 24hr session lol but It would be nice to eventually get up to hm and fm distances.

Thank you again for your time and assistance, and to everyone else also who has offered their time, help, advice and guidance, much appreciated. ^O^
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Re: Beginners

Post by webberg » Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:47 am

Morning Daz, apologies for being late to the party and welcome to the team.

I'm not a technique specialist or expert in what rate to row at is best for losing weight. I do though have a couple of observations.

Your blister issue is probably being partly caused by sweat forming between skin and handle. You will never completely eliminate that (especially as you go longer) but wearing sweat bands on the wrist will help a lot.

The heart rate issue may be as you suggest. It is possible however to use a monitor that straps to the forearm or wrist. My wife uses a Schoose (not sure on spelling) which links to an iPod or an app you can get on a smartphone. Also allows you to compare workouts.

Once you know your heart rate and how it reacts, you need to understand what it means to you. There is a lot of well meaning nonsense on the C2 board (not here of course) about max rates etc. At the end of the day it's a personal thing and you need to understand how your body works in order to get the best from it. Get some data first and then think about it.

All that said, you have cracked the most important bit.

You clearly WANT to row, you clearly WANT to improve, you are seeing benefits and I suspect that each time you get up from the machine, you WANT to go back to it.

Enjoy the machine for itself and the incidental benefits will follow.

Focus on technique and such is important but breaking down a particular piece of the rowing action and rebuilding it is usually reckoned to take around 100,000 metres. Personally I would estimate that I did something close to a million metres before my technique settled to something that was comfortable for me and not too horrendous. (I've never posted a video here so hat's off to you for that).

Remember that 90% of technique is mental. You have cracked that and the next step is to become an addict like the rest of us!

I look forward to hearing of further progress in all areas.
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:49 am

Hi Webberg,

Thank you very much indeed for the information, that is brilliant.

I think you are spot on with the sweaty hands = blisters comment, I noticed just the other day that my hands were incredibly sweaty and I kept having to change the grip and wipe my hands etc, but at the time i didn't associate this with blisters, but your comment and my experience of sweaty hands probably explains it.

I dug out some old weight lifting gloves which are helping a little bit, certainly better than it was but I have been meaning to get a head sweatband, so i will add two wrist bands to it too... I can complete the 70's tennis star look :lol:

That is interesting re the heart rate monitor on the wrist, I am now exploring different options as I would like to monitor my heart rate while walking too (do that a few times a week for a different kind of exercise) all this ant+ and monitor tech has really opened my eyes to the ability to monitor our health it is fantastic area and one I had previously overlooked. I have ordered a withings scale so i can track progress over time and a blood pressure monitor, but tying that in with gps based apps and exercise loggers etc etc would provide a pretty complete picture of how things are changing. Many thanks for the idea and brand name to explore further.

One of my next steps will be to read around about heart rates and how to establish your max rate... maybe it as simple as doing a high intensity workout and seeing the highest bpm reading, or as i suspect perhaps some kind of formula based on your resting heart rate... like I said, I need to read around lol

I have definitely taken on board the advice above about not overextending my knees on the catch, have sort of backed off and already it is paying dividends in respect to how far i can row in one sitting as it were. The stuff i can control..straight back, arm position, slight lean back at the end of the drive etc i try to consciously be as correct as i can be with, but as you say, it is still very early days so hopefully as you say as the metres rack up, and as my weight goes down the technique will come to be something more like it should be lol

Anyway, in the mean time thank you very much for your post and all the comments and information therein, very useful indeed and much appreciated ^O^ :D
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Re: Beginners

Post by webberg » Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:35 am

Daz, don't fret too much on the heart rate stuff.

There is a lot of advice here and elsewhere on what is best practice and how to measure getting to the optimal band you need. However until you have some data on your own reaction to exercise, a lot of the theory will make little sense.

The scale I use is described in these forums (I can't find it for now) but I interpret it as follows.

1. Calculate resting rate = take you rate as soon as you wake up and before you move. For me this is about 50. (Don't be concerned if yours is higher as I think average is around high 60's. If it's lower, then go and get checked out).

2. Get a maximum rate. That is usually found by some form of stress test, i.e. work at a constant pace but keep increasing the effort required to stay there. A treadmill exercise with the incline rising every 30 seconds or so until you can't maintain the set pace, or an exercise bike in similar mode should be enough. If you're not yet as fit as you want to be, this exercise may result in fatigue before max heart rate is found, but you'll have to do it again as you get fitter anyway. I can max at around 180.

3. The difference is your "working range". For me this is 180 - 50 = 130.

4. Each range boundary (UT2, UT1, etc) is then your resting rate plus a percentage of the working range.

For example, I think the "fat burner" range is 70% of the working range plus resting. That is 50 plus (130 x 70% =91). Total 141. I generally consider that if I want to be in that mode, I will try to keep heart rate between 141 and (141 + 15) = 156.

Using a different method of calculation you see a lot, max is 220 - age. For me that's 164. 70% is then 115. That gives a working range of 115 to 130. At those rates, I'm hardly moving the handle! However people use this and are happy.

So it's all about what works for you and for that you need data.

Good luck.
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:16 pm

Hi Webberg,

that is great information, up until this morning I was taking resting heart rate just during the day, but this morning using a phone app it read 56 (during the day sat down it usually reads from between 75-ish to 85-ish)which the app suggests could be bradycardic so I think I need to arrange a g.p. visit just to see what's what to be on safe side (there is a family history of heart disease). I will use the garmin heart rate monitor for these future tests as I suspect it is probably a touch more accurate than the optical app tests.

As an aside from that, I came across this last night:
http://www.thisisant.com/consumer/news-info/tips/

using the formula on there, and essentially the same as the one you mention towards the end of the post (re 220 - age), my max heart rate is 174-176, and 182 using the formula you describe. I did a row yesterday at different intensities just seeing at what paces roughly equate to what heart rate and I maxed out at 170. I use the term maxed out in the sense I couldn't work any harder, I did not follow the ability to talk test and add 40.

My 70-80% HR based on roughly those figures (bearing in mind pinpoint accuracy will probably never be achieved using consumer products) comes out at circa 130. I have yet to do a full normal row for me at the pace I settle into and record the heart rate for the duration so we will see what happens and like you say, will be a long learning process aside from anything else. I am literally brand new to rowing, early days into this whole healthy living thing and I have a long way to go yet.

I can get a bit obsessional about things, so will try to not get too hung up on heart rate and training, after all, the single most important factor for me right now is literally getting on the rower and doing something... that's the first step to be worrying about really lol

I am concerned about the sort of lowish resting heart rate so may monitor that over the next week and then see the g.p.

I will use your post to refer back to now for the future, as all the terminology etc is still a bit confusing lol so you have been a great help in explaining things for me.

Thank you very much indeed webberg, appreciate the assistance and yours (and everyone elses) patience in dealing with the newb lol
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Re: Beginners

Post by Stan » Wed Jul 31, 2013 2:17 pm

Daz, the 56 doesn't sound horrifically low and may even be a good sign that you are starting to get fit. I don't think the doc will worry unless it goes under 50 - hence all the top athletes who scare the hell out of the medical profession whenever they go in for a check up. Having said that, do mention it to your gp if its concerning you, just to put your mind at ease. Keep up the good work
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Re: Beginners

Post by webberg » Wed Jul 31, 2013 3:46 pm

Daz, as Stan says 56 seems pretty good.

Mine is low (bradycardic) but regular. Consequently although I can cause monitors to sound an alarm, I've had it checked enough times not to worry. Most likely cause for my low rate is probably the fact that I've been training since I was 13 or 14.

There are a few medical and indeed heart specialists in the team who may perhaps lurk on the forum who might want to chip in here but if you are concerned, then get checked. (It does occur to me that a slow heart rate might be linked with a slow metabolism but I have no evidence that is the case).

A rowing piece that some of us do regularly is to set a HR and try to keep below it. I know that Thomas W-P used to do a lot of pieces at 130 bpm and that this was his reference for whether he was fit, improving, declining or becoming ill.

The idea is that you set a time or distance, say 5k. You do the whole piece without breaching the set rate. Check the time.

If you do that same distance and HR later and are quicker, it means you are probably getting fitter. If slower, then you may be losing fitness or be coming down with a cold or something.

Not very scientific but easy to do and so long at the numbers are going the right way, quite inspiring.

If you are obsessive, you will be hooked on the rower and the data that can be extracted. Stan I think uses the Firstbeat Athlete system which throws off all sorts of data. Others have similar is less complex bits of kit.

Just remember, some days you can get on the machine and do a piece that is a PB and feel really good. The next day you might get on the machine and feel rubbish. That's just the way it is. On the rubbish days I always back of seeking that next PB and just focus on technique or sometime just getting metres on the board.

As was summed up for me, "Somedays you're the statue. somedays the pigeon"
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Wed Jul 31, 2013 4:42 pm

@ Stan, I am sorry I thought I already replied, I must have written it out, not hit send and go off the webpage :oops: :roll: #-o

I will try to remember what I first wrote, first off, thank you very much for the message, it has definitely taken the edge off somewhat lol

I did consider the fact that maybe my fitness is improving, well, it is improving, when I first got the rower I could only manage to row 142 metres and now i can manage a 5k in one sitting so something positive is definitely happening. It is just at my weight and lack of fitness it seems a bit premature and surreal perhaps to attribute any kind of low resting heart beat with an increase in fitness (easier to believe I am damaged cardiovascularly...which of course, i am sure i am to some extent), but of course, the possibility for improvement is definitely there.

Like I said, i am new to this whole thing, and even newer to measuring heart rate, so i will gather some data first, and then at the very least I can go to my gp with a more detailed and accurate picture as opposed mithering him due to my hypochondriac ways.

Again though, thank you very much for saying what you have, it has calmed me down a touch, I mean, I am not massively concerned, it would hardly be a surprise if there was some developing early days issue with my health, I mean you don't get this big and think you are the picture of health lol but still, thank you mate, appreciate the comment

As for athletes, as per my comment on the cross cycling thread, it scared me seeing a 35 bpm lol but it is inspiring as a demonstration of how you can improve fitness and health and while i never expect to get to that level, it is encouraging to know it is possible to improve, and that is the goal.

@webberg

Again, thank you for that information, it still seems a bit strange that it is good, rather than indicative of something more worrying but I am possibly being premature, some more data over time will help provide a clearer picture.

Yes I think it is safe to say your bradycardia is due to being super fit if you have been training since your teens lol I think I will see how it goes for a week and if it stays above 50 and everything else feels ok then I will just carry on measuring and see what happens, but at least I have considerably more information and knowledge to work with than I had before i received your help, thank you.

That sounds like a good idea to row to your heart rate levels. I will do a few rows first just measuring what the heart rate is doing, and then try to implement something along those lines. I think when you said it will take time to gather data etc it struck a chord and obviously makes sense so at least now i have the ability to record such metrics I can get started building up information in relation to the changes i am making.

I haven't heard of the firstbeat athlete system, but i will google it. I have just bought a withings scale and pre=ordered the withings pulse and am sat here with my garmin chest hrm on and have it connected to an app on android called selfloops. A blood pressure monitor has just arrived (it is high :( ) and a pulse oximeter is likely to be on the cards as I have cursorily read that there can be a relationship between blood oxygen levels and bradycardia... plus i would like to record my sleep as i possibly have or had sleep apnea, although the symptoms for that which I used to suffer have for all intents and purposes vanished so i suspect that has already improved. Obviously I am a layman but i am interested, finally, in taking control of my health.

Some days i have been feeling completely devoid of energy I think my diet still needs more time and work, i am low carbing, and low saturated fat-ing so perhaps it is just time to get used to not burning carbs, but as you say, some days you just don't feel upto the same as other days


:mrgreen: :lol: I think there must be a bloody flock of pigeons around me at times :roll: :lol:
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Re: Beginners

Post by webberg » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:24 pm

Daz, you sound like you have a lot on your plate.

Compartmentalise it.

Sounds like heart rate training has enough in it to keep you busy for weeks. Focus on that. Gather your data and understand how you perform and feel at different rates. Put down a capped HR piece as a benchmark and then just focus on technique and metres.

One of the downsides of our digital age is the ability to put information into the hands of those who don't have the knowledge or experience to interpret it correctly. As has been observed, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

If I were you I would put away the blood pressure monitors and scales supplied by people who don't know you, at least for now. You are clearly transitioning from somebody who was sedentary to somebody who's taking control and just getting fitter. As such you are unlikely to fit measures that have been derived from recording data from groups of people who are all much the same. That's not you at the moment as you go from one group to another. Consequently the tools you have are giving you good results for you but will not map across to scales meant for 90% of the population. Ignore them at least for now.

If you are worried about your health and how you might feel at this stage of your journey, go and have a proper assessment from somebody who can look at you and apply their knowledge to the scales and information.

Don't sweat the blood pressure too much. It varies a lot during the day for everybody.

Don'y get buried in the data around the exercise. Just exercise.

I reckon you're hooked by now? =D>
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Re: Beginners

Post by paulgould » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:46 pm

Daz,
That is some excellent advice from Graham above - you don't need to over-complicate things.
Forming a habit of doing regular exercise is the most important step - everything will fall rapidly into place after that - you will start eating better, sleeping better(extremely important, and often overlooked) and as the weight comes down you will get more supple and technically proficient.
In my opinion, and I know many will disagree with me, all the HR monitoring and exertion scales etc are for professionals and top amateurs who are running around at 6-8% body fat.
Anyway , very well done on taking the first steps to improving your health and just keep at it - consistency is the key.

Paul G
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Re: Beginners

Post by Daz » Wed Jul 31, 2013 5:48 pm

Hi Webberg,

yes that's the issue with consumer scales and such they are i imagine, based on general patterns using general formulas re bmi, which itself is not the most useful measure.

Well regarding the blood pressure monitor, the reason i bought that, is because my doc says mine is high, which it is (circa 150 over 90 their and my readings, which is lower than it has been in the past when i was smoking, I have had one doctor look at me shocked i was still breathing lol) so not massively high imo, but def over the guidelines. The issue is, they want to put me on tablets, my issue is, i want to change my lifestyle and improve my health, or at least, give myself 6 months to try and improve my health using natural methods i.e. diet and exercise.

I would much rather that, than be pumped full of pharmaceuticals, if at all possible. So, my plan was to use the following few months until january to build a picture of health state and crucially, to chart any progress. With that I can then, hopefully, not only produce improvements, but show my doctor raw data charting any progression which may go some way towards postponing pharmaceutical intervention.

If by January he still thinks I should take medication, then i will probably concede the point, but given, as you say, I am in transition, and that i am and will be for some time going through a period of flux, I want to give myself that chance to do it myself naturally, if you see what i mean.

i have told them this, re give me a few months to see what i can do myself through lifestyle, so they are aware of my plans, I just have a psychological barrier to medication that I will struggle to overcome, at least until I know there are no reasonable alternatives to pursue.

I do though think keeping data will if nothign else, provide extra motivation to continue, but of course, the data itself is never goign to be the prime or only concern, that is making sure i eat right and do my exercises.

As for hooked, i am but I feel still to be in that kind of no man's land where I appreciate the progress I have made, truly I do, it is massive really considering where i have come from, but am also frustrated by the fact i can't get properly stuck in and compete and enter online rows (I could do that, but I don't want to leave everyone else hanging around while i complete my row lol) anyway, yer thats about where I am at at the moment.

Again, thank you for your patience and guidance, it really does mean a lot to receive that more seasoned wisdom with regards keeping me focused on the right path.

Thanks mate.
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