How to get your gym ergo cleaned...

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johnglynn
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Post by johnglynn »

Thanks Stan, best of luck on your try

Thanks Paul, I'm going to get onto the staff at the gym, but I'm afraid I'll get (a) thats not my job (b) thanks will do (and then do nothing) (c) the enginneer is coming in XXX 2007 (d) or something similar

The advantages of the gym is that its ~200m from my office (great for lunch rows), and its cheap

I've a deposit on an appartment at the moment, and when the builders and solicitors finally get there fingers out and finish the place (currently over a year late (Ireland :roll:)), and I move in, I'll be buying a C2 rower . Which I'll keep in great shape .

I'd love to see what I could do on a 210+ rower, thanks for the offer but the flight and such would be a bit too much hassle

But the giant difference in drag between the two machines (and the fact that the high drag machine is not all that high at all 154 vs 210) got me thinking yesterday.

I'm going to try for a 1K next week on the high drag machine and see if I can go under the 3:00 mark . I think it's a 70% chance that I will get it at the moment . I'll find out next Thursday . I'll then try another 500m, then a 1609m then a 2K in the weeks after .

I hope the higher drag still helps me on the 2K (where I'm disappointed with my performance so far this year), but I think it will .

Last year at the IIRC I got a new P.B. of half a second , but I never understood why . My previous P.B. was done a few weeks earilear but I was in incredible shape (one of those days everything was right).

But at the IIRC, I was after a 6 hour bus journey, the food I had eaten that day was not great, and I was tired (from having to wake up early to get the bus) . I was drinking lots of lucazade though . Then at the IIRC all the machines felt heavy, I put them down to 9 but they still felt weird . Then in the race itself I did not stick to my strategy and tried to keep up with the others over the first 300m (which was far too fast for me), I think around the 1200 mark I started paying for my stupid fast pace at the start and then just hung on for the rest of the race . Then I find I had a P.B. ?? after so many things going wrong .
I thought up to yesterday that the reason for this was that I was willing to accept been in more pain, because this was the big race
But now I think it was more because of the higher drag machine at the IIRC allowed me to be more efficent then I was on the normal gym.

I'm even more interested now to see what happens to my time's when I get my own 210 machine :lol:
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Post by Stan »

I agree with you John. We only have one pm3 monitor at our gym and that shows a df of 137. I think I mentioned elsewhere that I was trying to get the staff to clean up the years of dust in the flywheel. I got "yes I will clean it up this weekend" (this was several weeks ago and it still hasnt happened). I am starting to save up for a C2 as well.
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Post by SandBaggerOne »

Glad to hear your stroke rate for the half marathon was up with mine. Had a bit of a conscience about it, because all the others seem to stick at 20 to 22. Don't know about you but I find the higher rate has a more natural cadence ..... despite the aforementioned boredom.
I can only achieve stroke rates that low at maximum resistance. I am only 5'8", so my strokes are not as long as those of our our 6 and a half footers. Also, at 160 pounds, my cardio fitness is better than my strength, so high cadence is the best way for me to achieve good speeds. I row at a drag factor of 140-150. My machine is very clean, so it maxes out over 200.

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Post by PSims »

John, Stan etc.

Seems like I will have to pay a visit to your gyms!

I'm pretty scary when I get annoyed - and someone having a "can't be arsed" attitude when it comes to cleaning out the rowers and getting in the way of my fav hobby is guaranteed to do it!!!!

I used the broken record techinque - I just went on and on and on until they did it. I even said "Gimme a screwdriver and hoover and I'll do it myself!!" The final conversation was with the manager - now they get done every month! Cos it's less effort than arguing with me.

You could also use the line "Who is the most important person in your company. Well that would be me, as I am the CUSTOMER!".

For highly trained athletes like yourselves, what's the point if your performance is being shagged by fluff?!

Mind you, stick it on setting 1 and you'll get great results for the Single Slug - So THAT'S how you all did so well!!!!!
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Post by Stan »

Paul - had another go at trying to get the fluff removed. 2 of the 6 machines are now out of action - one needs a new chain - not sure what the problem with the other is. 3 of the 4 remaining machines are so clogged I struggled to maintain 2.06. The remaining machine is also dusty but I seem to able to maintain a decent pace without having to exceed 30 spm. This will be the 3rd time of asking.
Last edited by Stan on Mon Aug 07, 2006 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Thomas W-P »

I split this out because it is interesting in its own right and was buried in the PB thread.
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DIY

Post by PSims »

Just need a phillips screwdriver and a hoover!

Just go in and do it yourself....if anyone asked me what I was doing, I would reply "YOUR JOB!"
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Post by Stan »

Well micracles do happen. One of the members of staff finally got fed up with me nagging him (or heard Paul was coming to sort him out :twisted: ) and started cleaning the flywheels on the Concept 2s this morning :D . I told him to brace himself for a flood of complaints from people saying its too hard now :twisted: :lol: .
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Post by Paul Victory »

I think it's about time I started hassling the staff at my gym.

I tested the drag factor at damper setting 10 and it was 160. From what I can gather, this indicates a lot of dust in the flywheel.

I remember setting a number of PBs last November when they had the erg cleaned. The effect only seemed to last a few weeks, and this suggests to me that it's not just a matter of drag factor, but also smoothness of the machine if it's free from dust.

I know that drag factor is not supposed to affect your overall time; leastways, using one drag factor against another does not confer any particular advantage other than choosing the 'gear' that works best for you.

However, it seems to me that rowing at drag factor 160 on a machine that is free from dust must be easier than rowing at drag factor 160 on a machine that badly needs cleaning. Also, if your best drag factor is (say) 210 and the machine won't go above 160, this must also affect your times.

On a related point, is it advisable to reduce drag factor for longer distances? I tend to do everything at damper setting 10, other than recovery rows.

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Help me with this

Post by ptruz »

I just "displayed drag factor" on my PM3 monitor (C2 D). I set the thing on the side....the damper.....that's it....to 0 (or 10). That's above 9.

The display said 195........what does that mean?

Is that OK.....good.....abnormal?

I only stroked about 5 or 6 strokes moderately hard.
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Post by Stan »

Now that all 6 machines in our gym have been cleaned up they are all giving drag factors of about 210 to 220 on damper 10 which I believe is the correct value. A display of 195 isnt too bad but it wouldnt hurt to get it cleaned up if you can. See Pauls tips earlier for tips on how to get it done if it is a gym machine.
Before these machines were cleaned I did all my rowing on damper 10 but now do it on 6 - the drag factor is about 140ish.
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DF and servicing

Post by PSims »

Highest drag available should be over 200.
You need high DFs for the short distances...for racing.

I set DF 140 for my longer rows - it becomes hard to pull against any more after a couple of hours!

Note: When they clean the machines, they usually oil the chain/monorail etc - so everything moves more smoothly.
A low DF on setting 10 indicates the machine hasn't been looked at for ages....so it won't be as good.
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Post by JanetS »

I had a try on our school gym machine yesterday - couldn't get a drag higher than 100 out of it :evil: - mainly due to kids in v muddy kit coming in all the time & spreading their dust around - the gym guys do their best to keep up with it, but it's like running the 'red queen's race'

The boathouse ones are much better - but I guess there's less mud bought in there......
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Can you actually set the drag factor...

Post by ptruz »

or are you referring to the Damper setting?

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Post by big dave k »

i reckon my gym set a new record tonight. tested the machine i like to think of as the 'heap of shit' erg, and it's max drag was.... 90!! how the hell is anyone meant to use that effectively. mentioned it to one of the personal trainers that the machine needed cleaning, she assured me it would be done soon. :roll: .

whilst on the subject of personal trainers. why can't they learn the technique for using the erg before recommending it to their clients? the amount of times ive seen a pt sitting by someone who's ragging the machine to pieces with the worst technique ever, i wonder how many get sued for putting people's backs out. just a thought
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Post by Thomas W-P »

Dave

I reckon at 6' 8" and having asked already you should follow the approach suggested here a few months ago. Walk in with your screwdriver and dustpan and brush and start cleaning the ergo. It will only take a few minutes.

When they ask you what you are doing, you slowly stand up to your full height, look down and say:

"Your job".
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Post by big dave k »

i barely clean my own room, im not going to start doing someone else stuff as well! might be heading down in a bit, i'll check if they've done it if i do
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Well done David Lloyd

Post by Spamuel »

I feel I should mention that David lloyd in Basildon oiled the machines they very next day after I complained about it. Remarkable I know!

In sone ways I liked the grinding feeling it gave me an excuse for a bad work out.
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Help!

Post by Paul Victory »

I have been trying for nearly two months to get my gym to clean their one working Model D.

When I first spoke to them about it, the drag factor at damper setting 10 was 162. It has kept dropping since then and was down to 150 about 2 weeks ago. I kept plugging away at the gym staff and they told me that they had put in an order for the supplier to come out and service the erg.

When I arrived at the gym about ten days ago, I was delighted when they told me that somone had come in and carried out the service. I was trying to figure out which of my PBs I would smash first (it's been a long time since I added anything to my nonathlon total) and got onto the erg for a warm up.

It felt nice and smooth, but other than that, it did not feel significantly different to previously. I set the PM3 to measure drag factor at setting 10 and found it was ..... 149! I'm finding this incredibly frustrating as I find that I can not generate any real sprint power at this drag factor.

I told the gym staff and suggested to them that the supplier might have oiled the machine, but it appeared he might not have cleared out the dust from the flywheel and I gave them a printout from the C2 website showing what needs to be done. They said that they would talk to the supplier about it.

When I visited the gym tonight, the drag factor was still at 149 and I decided to do a HM. Afterwards, I spoke to the guy on duty in the gym and asked him had they got anywhere with the supplier.

He said that he had spoken to the supplier and that the supplier had told him that the erg was set at the highest drag factor appropriate for a gym and that, in any event, for a race time to be valid, the drag factor had to be set between 100 and 140.

I'm afraid at this point I lost my rag and told the gym attendant that that was b*llsh*t and that it seemed to me that the supplier was too lazy to do his job properly and was using a b*llsh*t excuse to get out of doing what he was supposed to do. I feel a bit guilty about it now as the staff in the gym are actually very nice and they don't deserve to have me ranting at them over something that may be outside their control.

They suggested that I talk to the manager of the sports centre tomorrow and I said that I would do so, but I would check my facts beforehand. Hence my cry for help.

Do people agree with my assessment of the position re the supplier as outlined above or is it possible that there is some validity in what he is saying? I presume there is not a setting on the Model D that allows you to restrict the maximum drag factor.

My understanding from other posts is that the drag factor at damper setting 10 should be somewhere in the region of 210 and that many people find that a very high drag factor is what works best for them over short distances. I know that there's a trade off between spm and the power of each stroke as you change the drag factor, but that does not justify resticting the drag factor available to someone who is training for a race.

The IIRC is now less than 3 weeks away and I really feel I'm going to struggle with my training if I can't get the drag factor sorted out, particularly as I would like to try the 8*500 intervals suggested by Mike and others.

I would be very grateful for any suggestions as to how I should deal with the manager of the sports centre. In particular, I would be grateful if people could confirm that I'm right in my assessment of the supplier as I don't want to go in with all guns blazing and find out that I'm being unfair to the supplier.

Incidentally, the young lad in the gym suggested to me that the ergs in the gym are intended for ordinary gym members who want to use the ergs for general fitness and are not intended for people who are serious about racing. Having already used up my entire supply of b*llsh*ts for the year, I didn't respond directly, but I'm sorry I didn't ask him did this mean they were going to reduce the maximum speed on the treadmills from 16 kph to 12 kph on the grounds that most people can't run faster than 12 kph.

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Post by big dave k »

sounds like definate bullshit from the suppier there. the max drag factor on a new machine should be between 210-220, i believe, and there is no way to change this other than dust in the flywheel casing. seems a tad convenient that the max drag dropped naturally to the exact level that it 'should be' when the guy came!

as for the validity for racing, that's bollocks as well. there's no set drag needed for a time to be valid, only that the drag isnt changed in the middle of a race. some clubs and national squads may set a specific drag for testing, but it's not neccesary for a record to be official.

finally, if you're plannign on doing 8x500m in training for a 2k, it would make sense to do it at the same drag as you would use for a 2k. should also be the same spm. if you're training, you should keep the drag the same, only changing it up if you're attempting a pb over a short distance.
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Post by JanetS »

I'm with Dave on this.

Perhaps the gym manager ought to read the maintenance guide:

extract:
Every 250 hours of use (monthly for institutional users)
Inspect chain for stiff links. If thorough lubrication does not help the chain should be replaced.
Inspect chain-handle connection for wear. If the hole has become elongated, or the U-bolt is worn halfway through, the entire connection should be replaced.
Tighten the shockcord if the handle does not return all the way to the fan enclosure.
Loosen or tighten the nuts on the Performance Monitor arm joints as necessary.

Check for dust inside the flywheel with a torch. Vacuum if needed.

(My underlining)

There is no set range for race times to be valid.
I can see that the gym might want to discourage use of high drag factors for inexperienced users - to avoid injury - but that's no excuse to avoid maintaining equipment properly so that competant users have the full working range available.

I'm curious - who's the supplier? It would never occur to me to buy new from anyone other than Concept themselves.......
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How do y ou check the DF on a model C?

Post by Wolfmiester »

Morning all,
checking the drag factor on the model D is easy as there's amenu option. But how do you do it on a model C?
My gym has 6 machines that all need cleaning (and chains tightening) so I'd like to go and measure them all and report it in.
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Post by big dave k »

when the flywheel's stopped, hold ok and rest together (i think it's these two. either way, it's the 2 smaller buttons on the right, one above the other)

the drag will be displayed in the bottom right of the screen
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Drag factor on a model C

Post by plummy »

Hi Wolfmeister - and welcome!

Checking the drag on a model C is achieved by holding down the "rest" and "ready/OK" buttons simultaneously and then pulling a few strokes on the handle.

According to my manual the typical drag factor range for a Model C is 103 for a damper setting of "1" to 223 for a damper setting of "10"

Mine read 220 I think, last time I had it one 10

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Post by webberg »

Paul, you have encountered one of my pet hates - people who give you excuses and not reasons.

There is no way to restrict the drag on the machine other than by covering the fan housing.

There is no drag band used for racing -- it's all personal preference.

A clean and maintained model D should be at around 210-220 on level 10 and mine is at 135 at level 5 +.

Sounds like you're a good customer and a reasonable guy so use those facts. Be polite but firm. Set your target - which is to have a clean, usable machine and take nothing less.

Good luck and let us know how you get on.
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