Nijmegen 4 Days 50k per Day

paulgould · Post by **paulgould** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:03 am

Thank You Mike and Stan for the kind words(well most of them anyway!).
As Mike has said, at least I have proved that these challenges are attainable - you don't have to be a fast,talented rower either.
What you do need though,is a lot of miles under your belt,the ability to rein yourself in and not go out too quickly,be able to take your mind off of how far you still have to go(TV or music or both definitely helps - as does turning the monitor away) and conserve energy any way that you can.
Having done both of Mike's Ultra challenges I would say that the MSD is the easier of the two - once you have conquered day 4 you are pretty much home and dry - you have a rest day the following day and then only(?) 60km more over 2 days - I would advise anybody attempting both to tackle MSD first.
As for Dodentocht(100k) - that is a distance I have always wanted to attempt with the aim of getting under 10 hours first time out.
When I had completed the 100k and went to post it on the C2 site I had the very pleasant shock of being told I had to get a verification code as it was a top 3 time(even though there are only 7 or 8 individual 100k's posted in total).
It would be really great if I could have inspired anyone else to have a go at one of these Ultra challenges - the feeling of achievement far outlasts the discomfort(iron butt notwithstanding!).

Happy Rowing

Paul G

Post by **Thomas W-P** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 12:31 pm

Paul

Hearing your tales of ultra-distance inspire me in the way that watching K2 climbing documentaries does. Rather worryingly, I think "I'd love to try that."

Climbing K2 is so far from my area of influence I can just chuckle and let my better half say "over my dead body".

Now, 100km is just 10 hours in my garage! Much more available and visible but I still think I might need to enter into long term spousal negotiations.

One question - the verification code thing - I assume that was not a problem - do you have a PM3? I have a PM2+ - I wonder what Concept 2 accept in that circumstance.

paulgould · Post by **paulgould** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:04 pm

Thomas - I think your reaction to the really long rows are not dissimilar to mine when I read about you and John Glynn and a few others with your manic 500m sprints and the alphabet soup of training bands and HR that you have to train within.

WRT the garage and spousal negotiations - firstly I am fortunate to be back in South Africa where a garage is a space/room that is large enough to park your cars in so that my C2 is in the house in our gym room.My wife has a spinning bike as her preferred instrument of torture, also in the gym room so that we can train together.Typically if I am going to do an ulta distance I will try and start round about 3 or 4 in the morning to try and keep anti-social time to a minimum.
Finally, when you go and climb K2, don't invite me - I don't like heights!

Happy Rowing and Good Luck with your BIRC training.

Paul G

paulgould · Post by **paulgould** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 1:59 pm

Thomas - WRT your question about the verification: It was not a verification code that was required , just an entry code which I applied for and it was e-mailed to me.This allowed me to enter my time but it is recorded as IND ,not IND_V(which I assume is verified).So as I did the 100k on my own home erg i.e. Not a publicly accessible machine, it is not verified even though my wife has said she will gladly phone them and attest to having witnessed my descent into madness, if I wanted her to!

Paul G

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 2:36 pm

As far as I know, the IND_V on the ranking means specifically verified via a PM3 code. This was brought in to counter some specific and widely know instances of cheating which were happening on the rankings a while back (but seem to have been resolved now). I think the fact that C2 gave you an entry code means that they feel there is no potential issue with your ranking time, hence it appears on the rankings. I think they would have raised any questions first, rather than giving you the code (although it may be worth emailing them for clarification on this.)

The publicly accessible machine bit is about independent verification, rather than getting someone you know to verify it. I would have thought a LOT of the big distance rows would be done on personal machines (it was definitely harder to row a marathon in a public gym). There was a case of someone claiming to have rowed the fastest 2k in history in their own garage and then having it 'verified' by some mates. Fortunately said muppet has now either grown up and/or got treatment for his problems...

paulgould · Post by **paulgould** » Wed Nov 01, 2006 3:06 pm

Mike - I suspect you are right about all that verification stuff - I think if I had gone and claimed a 6:30 or something similar bearing in mind my other posted times then there would have been considerable suspicion( and rightly so ).
However 8:14 is well within the bounds of believable and hopefully before the end of the season I hope to test C2's validation procedure with a sub-8 hr clocking!

Paul G

MaxDev · Post by **MaxDev** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 6:26 pm

Just to let everyone know that I'm attempting the Nijmegen... day 2 was today.

Woke up after yesterday's (allegedly one-off) 50K feeling fine... very few minor aches, and decided I was in a good enough state to attempt day 2. Strategic plasters applied to heels and first joint of middle two fingers on each hand.

Race plan for today modified as described in my lessons learnt from the 50K challenge yesterday i.e. 2:16, 2:17, 2:18, 2:19 and 2:20 split 10Ks with breaks of 1, 2, 3 and 3 mins between each piece - target 3:59.

Won't go into too much detail, as I barely have the energy to type now, but first 20K was fine. Felt a little low on energy (possibly not enough carbs last night), but otherwise OK. Got a banana down at 20K which was much needed.

Started to hurt during the next 10K - thighs and calves mainly, also quads. More of the same for the 4th and 5th 10K, though the additional second on the split for the pace boat each 10K was just about right - didn't have to up the rate to stay with the pace boat - constant 25 average for the whole race. 3 minutes rest at 30 and 40K was also a blessed relief - definitely will go for this again.

SAS in evidence towards the last few K of each 10K piece, and getting a bit worse with each set, but new method of seat padding (which I'll describe in the training forum later) seems to be working to a certain extent.

Final time: 3:58:09.7

1st 10K: 45:04.0 2:15.2
2nd 10K: 45:37.5 2:16.8
3rd 10K: 45:56.7 2:17.8
4th 10K: 46:06.0 2:18.3
5th 10K: 46:25.5 2:19.2

Eating lots of pasta tonight ready for tomorrow, though my main worry is not the energy levels as much as the pain and physical damage to delicate parts of my anatomy.

Modesty prevents me saying too much, but have already developed a substantial pair of friction burns in an unusual and hard to treat location.

Will probably add 1 second to each split tomorrow, but otherwise keep the same race plan as today, as it worked pretty well.

Dreading it, but know that if I can overcome tomorrow, I should make it through... still on for sub 16 hours, but have stopped thinking about that - will be very happy just to complete.

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:06 pm

Now there's no getting away with that! Where EXACTLY are these friction burns? (I had to detail my friction burns for everyone's amusement, so why not you too?!?

) Personally, I think you're talking bollocks

Maybe you shoulda read the bit about the double shorts technique...

Don't forget you can log a Dodentocht too!

big dave k · Post by **big dave k** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:18 pm

you're all mental.

that is all

MaxDev · Post by **MaxDev** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:20 pm

Mike - not bollocks - not as bad as that thankfully. If you must know - high up but still well inside the a$$ crack... ouch. Skin rubbing on skin for hour after hour there with a lubrication (not!) of sweat, and very little I can do about it...

Do you mean as a result of doing the two 50Ks, or if I extend one of the next two days to 100K - no f***ing way if it's the latter!

And I'm assuming it is that, 'cos I thought Dodentochts had to be done under standard ultra-endurance rules i.e. no more than 10 mins/hour resting?

Besides, I'd be embarrassed to log a Dodentocht of 23 hours 50-something minutes - will wait until I can do it properly.

But not for a while - not even sure I will complete Nijmegen yet.

Max

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 7:45 pm

Ah, the rower's ar$e problem. You should have read up on the early part of this thread where I explained all about suffering from this, and why I now ultra-row with 2 strategic plasters to resolve this. Stick 'em on and you won't feel a thing. Painful to remove tho

Leave them on til you've finished.

And Dodentocht, like the real event, is about doing 100k over 25 hours, so a sleep in the middle is allowed. That's how I did it, and my time is 19:30:00.0 so don't worry.

MaxDev · Post by **MaxDev** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:30 pm

Yes, I'll definitely be trying the strategic plaster approach tomorrow, but not sure that it would have helped to have read your experiences first... after all, I wouldn't have known where to stick them until I'd experienced it for myself!

(I don't recall ever having this problem when rowing at uni, but I don't think I ever did anywhere near as much distance/time as this, even off and on water combined)

Hadn't checked your time for it (or the rules!)... guess I'd have worked out rests were allowed in that case... okay I'll log a "World's Worst Completed Dodentocht" at 23:58

, and that'll give me the incentive to log a proper one later.

Max

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Mon Nov 27, 2006 9:37 pm

The trick is to do the 30k marathon practice and have a look where the red patches are. That's where the blisters will turn up when the distances get longer.

The Dodentocht is a great achievement, however you manage it. But you can always come back and try and do it faster next time...

paulgould · Post by **paulgould** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:57 am

Max - keep it going there, you are going great - and on course for sub-16 hrs.
However, you Northern Hemisphere types need to toughen up there

- you and Mike discussing friction burns and plasters and stuff like that - didn't happen in my day!!
Seriously though Max,you are doing really well there - just get Day 3 out the way and Day 4 is surprisingly easy.

Happy Rowing

Paul G

Wolfmiester · Post by **Wolfmiester** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:55 pm

Good luck for days 3 & 4 Max.
Maybe you could send Mike a private email of the blister details to save the rest of us

Wolfie.

Post by **Thomas W-P** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:23 pm

Hope it went well today Max.

MaxDev · Post by **MaxDev** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 3:30 pm

Thanks Thomas.

Just finished day 3 - 4:00:00.2

A whole new experience in pain today... will write more later.

Max

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:43 pm

So what happened?????

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:27 pm

And are you still on for tomorrow???? (Have to say, 3rd day was the worst one for me, because that was when my blisters went through. Ow ow ow ow!)

Am waiting for news - am on the edge of my seat. (which probably isn't a comfortable position for you right now!

)

MaxDev · Post by **MaxDev** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:43 pm

I'm getting to it... had to go out for a couple of hours (and driving a car's not so much fun when you can barely sit down) and then have something to eat first...

Mike - it's nothing you haven't already felt from your own experience of doing this event... but I can only now begin to appreciate what you described, and still in awe that you were able to complete this challenge during a heat-wave.

Race plan as per yesterday, but one second slower on each 10K split - 2:17, 2:18, 2:19, 2:20 and 2:21, with a planned time of 4:00:30, though I was hoping I could still beat that and stay just under 4 hours.

Fine through 10k, but SAS already in evidence by about 15k, even though I've added big bubblewrap to the padding from yesterday. Things don't seem much worse than yesterday particularly until about 30k - though the extra second on the splits was definitely needed.

Calf muscles start really hurting just short of 30k, and this limits the stroke by a few inches (can't reach front stops) which doesn't help. From about 35K, quads tighten up so much (v.painful) that I can't drive fully (legs probably stay 10 degrees off straight), so had to compensate by a lot more arm work (and adjust the recovery slightly to avoid hitting the knees, as I carry very low over them)... terrible technique, and very bad for the back, which starts to twinge after only a few K of this abuse.

Manage to get a good stretch in during the 3-min break at 40km though, and set off for the final 10K feeling not too bad, apart from the almost continuous SAS now - feels like someone has taken a baseball bat to my buttocks for an hour or two.

Never been in such continuous pain (well, exercise related / self-inflicted at any rate) for so long before... not a pleasant experience.

Start PM3-watching, and find the distance seems to be crawling by even slower than normal. Even try blind rowing for a while, but that doesn't get the metres to go by any quicker. Finally however, it's over.

Don't have my splits to hand, but was quite consistent overall - beat the pace boat by a length or so on every 10K - thought that should gain me the 30s I needed to still break 4hrs, but just mistimed it to finish in 4:00:00.2.

The thought of going through it all again tomorrow fills me with even more dread, though at least this will be the final day.

Strategic plasters did a good job, and will definitely be required again for tomorrow. Main concern is whether my butt is up to another four hours on the seat, padding or not - still feels now like someone's been using a baseball bat on it.

Since I notice the SAS seems to kick in worst during the second half of each 10K piece, I'm going to try a different race strategy tomorrow:

8km 1:30r
6km 1:30r
6km 1:30r
6km 1:30r
6km 2:00r
6km 2:00r
6km 2:00r
6km

3 mins more rest in total, but I should be able to push myself a little harder than today in the pieces to compensate a bit. Aiming for somewhere around 4:02 (will work out exact splits later), for a total time around 15 hours 51 minutes.

Thanks for all the good wishes and encouragement so far!

Mike Channin · Post by **Mike Channin** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:52 pm

Max - you'll be fine. Knowing it is the LAST day will make all the difference!

Oh, and find yourself a nice soft cushion to carry round. Mine became my best friend for the week after in July...

(and yes, it was pretty hard work doing the 4 x 50k in 32 degree heat, now you've made me think about it again...)

ALL THE BEST FOR TOMORROW, MAX - WE'RE ALL ROOTING FOR YOU. (no sniggers from the antipodeans, please...)

alistairkbs · Post by **alistairkbs** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 9:54 pm

Max

I hope you do it.

Complete respect for this sort of stuff.

Good luck

Alistair

Post by **Thomas W-P** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:18 pm

Good luck Max. Having just done a FM tonight (OW!) I am even more in awe of you psychos who do this day after day.

BigWaveDave · Post by **BigWaveDave** » Tue Nov 28, 2006 10:59 pm

All the best for tomorrow Max, I'm sure that you will feel it was all worth it after and feel a great sense of achievement

Stan · Post by **Stan** » Wed Nov 29, 2006 12:07 am

Well done so far Max and good luck for the final leg tomorrow.