Lactate based training

[sander]

Had a bit of a laugh with a bit of free erg software last night. It tracks the power curve and so can give advise on what you are doing during the drive either correctly or wrongly from the idea of the 'perfect' stroke I assume. 3 of us at the club having play seeing how many strokes it took to get it to tell us we did a 'Perfect Stroke'. I managed 4 but was beaten someone did it in 3. Quite funny seeing the frustration when you can't get it correct. Definitely worth having a play with - http://ergometer-space.org

Interesting software. I tried it out. Joined a team room of Orca, my old club. Nobody there. Does the software save the workout data?

No can't see it saves data, shame really. Talks about widgets so maybe that is something that might follow. If it did its almost a Row Pro competitor.

Come on then Sander how many strokes until you got a 'Great Stroke'?
If anyone gets it on the first I will be annoyed!! and you may find me constantly take one stroke on an erg until I do.

I don't know. Is it supposed to tell you? All my strokes are great strokes, of course!

[valgozi]

I have wasted two strips trying to stab my self with a sterile needle.

A needle that's horrible! Um wait for lancets!! Out of interest how did you know if you'd gone deep enough?
Have you got any diabetic friends they might lend you some lancets for Sunday.

Got an error reading and no reading. I guess too small drops of blood. Frustrating. I was hoping to do a steady state testing on Sunday.

Drop of blood doesn't have to be huge, but the strip has to suck up the blood to cover the bit that the magic happens on.

[valgozi]

Had a bit of a laugh with a bit of free erg software last night. It tracks the power curve and so can give advise on what you are doing during the drive either correctly or wrongly from the idea of the 'perfect' stroke I assume. 3 of us at the club having play seeing how many strokes it took to get it to tell us we did a 'Perfect Stroke'. I managed 4 but was beaten someone did it in 3. Quite funny seeing the frustration when you can't get it correct. Definitely worth having a play with - http://ergometer-space.org

I don't know. Is it supposed to tell you? All my strokes are great strokes, of course!

I don't doubt all your strokes with how fast you go in a boat.

Text appears in an advice box. But if sound is on your PC and you can hear it over the C2 fan it speaks whats happening.
Here is me point to what I mean -

[gregsmith01748]

I just had another thought about drift.

I think that in addition to being normalized for power, it makes sense to look at drift as a function of time. For example, if on one day I do an 80' session and look at drift from first half to second half it will be bigger than if I did a 60' session. So, I think I'd want to use a normalized number like % / hour as the standard units for drift.

What do you think?

[sander]

Not sure about that and if it correlates with lactate then you should first construct the underlying mechanism that causes both ...

[sander]

1.5!!!! Success. My first baseline measurement. Before exercise. After breakfast

[sander]

Had a bit of a laugh with a bit of free erg software last night. It tracks the power curve and so can give advise on what you are doing during the drive either correctly or wrongly from the idea of the 'perfect' stroke I assume. 3 of us at the club having play seeing how many strokes it took to get it to tell us we did a 'Perfect Stroke'. I managed 4 but was beaten someone did it in 3. Quite funny seeing the frustration when you can't get it correct. Definitely worth having a play with - http://ergometer-space.org

I don't know. Is it supposed to tell you? All my strokes are great strokes, of course!

I don't doubt all your strokes with how fast you go in a boat.

Text appears in an advice box. But if sound is on your PC and you can hear it over the C2 fan it speaks whats happening.
Here is me point to what I mean -

Not sure if I am doing it right. It talks to me on the first stroke (from static flywheel) and then it remains silent. Either all my strokes are good or they are so far off that it doesn't have words for it.

Does it actually say'perfect' when you do what it considers a good stroke?

[valgozi]

Ok have videoed the talk when you row. Not sure it would keep saying the same thing over and over so if you have hit a great stroke maybe it does stop saying something.

[sander]

Ok have videoed the talk when you row. Not sure it would keep saying the same thing over and over so if you have hit a great stroke maybe it does stop saying something.

So clearly I don't do great strokes. I had it set to Dutch language do. Dutch don't praise very often.

[sander]

For your interest, I am reposting here what I wrote on my blog: http://wp.me/p5L0qO-te

If you haven't done so, you should really read [this post http://wp.me/p5L0qO-sB , me waffling on about the test protocol and other general theoretical preparations. This post is about what actually happened.

The ambient temperature in my rowing basement was 12 degrees C. There was good air flow (door open to outside where it was 3C), and the humidity was quite high.

Preparing all the lactate paraphernalia around the erg. I would stab in my right hand, using my dominant left hand, so lancing device and meter on the left, on the little table with the radio. 9 strips (the 8 that I would need plus one reserve) taken out of the little plastic container and prepared on a clean piece of tissue, on the floor on the left. Notebook and pen on the left. I wrote capital letter and underlined instructions on the top of the page: "DRY. WET. DRY. STAB. WIPE. DROP. MEASURE." On the right hand side, a safe distance from the precious strips, I had a roll of tissues, a wet towel, and my water bottle.
2k warming up at 2:10 - 2:15 pace, then going through a mime version of the test protocol.

First 10 minutes @ 160W. I did the protocol a little clumsily, had to stab twice and still got a miniature droplet. The meter said: "Lo". OK. A little frustrated but as I was already over the two minute break I decided to accept not having a measurement here and move on.

Second 10 minutes @ 165W. This time I paid attention to pressing the lancing device hard against my finger and stretching the skin a bit with my thumb. That proved to be more successful. I had enough blood I think. The entire capillary of the strip turned red, like this:

The reading was 0.8 mmol/L. Much lower than expected.

At 170W and 175W I got readings of 1.2 mmol/L. Funnily now blood would come out of the stabs during the row, but new stabs didn't bleed much. I had to take care to wait and get enough blood. I gradually reduced the time needed to take the measurement to about 90 seconds, 100 seconds including writing down the result in my notebook.

I was looking forward to seeing an increased value at 180W, but I was impatient and didn't get enough blood. The drop was actually just big enough but I slightly misaligned my finger with the strip, smearing blood on the wrong side of it: "Lo". I decided to take a longer break, prick again and re-measure. Now I got 0.6 mmol/L!

Frustrated and thinking I must be doing something wrong, I decided to jump 10 W to 190W. Here, I measured 1.0 mmol/L. Needed to "milk" my finger.

Now with two 10 minute intervals to go and two strips left, there was no room for error. I rowed the 7th interval at 205W and the reading was 1.4 mmol/L. Needed some "milking" of the finger to get enough blood.

Slightly angry, I rowed the final interval at 248W, so that's 10 minutes at 6k pace. Did I say I was frustrated? That caused me to push harder than the 210W that was scheduled. I also wanted to provoke the analyzer to show a high value. I got what I was looking for: 4.8 mmol/L.

A 1km cooling down and then a shower. After the shower I took another test reading just to check, and measured 1.7 mmol/L. That sounds plausible. This was about 10 minutes after the end of the cooling down.

Here is the row:

Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Nov 22, 2015
--|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|-Avg-|Avg-|-Avg-|-Avg
--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|Watts|SPM-|-HR--|-DPS
--|19433|80:00.0|02:03.5|185.8|22.5|151.0|10.8
Workout Details
#-|EDist|-Etime-|-SPace-|Watts|SPM-|AvgHR|DPS-|Comments
01|02308|10:00.0|02:10.0|159.4|20.7|138.7|11.1|Lactate Lo
02|04644|20:00.0|02:08.4|165.3|20.9|140.3|11.2|Lactate 0.8
03|07009|30:00.0|02:06.9|171.3|20.8|143.3|11.4|Lactate 1.2
04|09391|40:00.0|02:05.9|175.3|21.4|145.7|11.1|Lactate 1.2
05|11796|50:00.0|02:04.7|180.3|22.0|148.3|10.9|Lactate Lo/0.6
06|14251|60:00.0|02:02.2|191.7|22.6|153.2|10.9|Lactate 1.0
07|16760|70:00.0|01:59.6|204.8|24.2|159.9|10.4|Lactate 1.4
08|19433|80:00.0|01:52.2|247.6|27.7|171.1|09.7|Lactate 4.8

So now I have a blue pinky finger and a well perforated ring finger on my right hand, I am a little confused, and I am torn between a few explanations:

- I must have done something systematically wrong and got too low numbers. This sounds very plausible as I am just learning to take the measurements. On the other hand, I read on several places that if you do something wrong, you tend to get too high values ...

- I am an anomaly. I seem to get significantly lower lactate numbers at low power than the crowd on the Free Spirits Forum. Does the 2.0 mmol/L as a good steady state intensity apply to me at all? Have I been doing my steady state at a too low intensity? I use to row around 2:06 pace which is 175W.

- I really should have continued and measured at 215 and 225W instead of going to 248W immediately. On the other hand, it was good to get rid of my frustration (at the cost of dubious training effect) and to at least know that the meter is capable of measuring higher values.

What next?

I will continue to measure in the coming weeks, probably after 20 minutes and 60 minutes on a 3x20min session. I hope to get more handy with the measurements, and at the same time to get some more data that would confirm the normal lactate levels for my body. I will probably do the next 3x20 session at 200W, slightly faster than I used to, to see what that brings me.

Sorry for the long post, but being new in this game means I go through a learning curve (or frustration curve) and I would love to get your advice over here. I fear I may throw the lactate meter away in frustration if the next few measurements don't give satisfactory / interpretable results.

[valgozi]

You mention it takes 90 seconds to do a test. Just a few thoughts on this.

I read a study somewhere that says blood lactate is correct up to about 45 seconds from the exercise finishing. Stelph posted it somewhere I believe.

Time to lactate should be recorded each time. I count this as how long it takes to get the drop of blood that will be tested on my finger (so finish dry, swab, dry, stab, 1st drop, wipe, second drop = TTL). It is normally around 35 seconds for this for me. Once the blood drop is formed the rush is then over as I believe the lactate concentrations will not change quickly, but obviously all that is left to do is pick up the lactate meter and touch the test strip to the drop of blood this doesn't take long.

Sometimes I confuse TTL to completing the whole process (if I don't look at time when drop is formed) but as long as I am below the 45 seconds I am happy the reading should be consistent.

[sander]

You mention it takes 90 seconds to do a test. Just a few thoughts on this.

I read a study somewhere that says blood lactate is correct up to about 45 seconds from the exercise finishing. Stelph posted it somewhere I believe.

Time to lactate should be recorded each time. I count this as how long it takes to get the drop of blood that will be tested on my finger (so finish dry, swab, dry, stab, 1st drop, wipe, second drop = TTL).

I believe I will get better. Anyway for the lactate steady state intensities it shouldn't introduce a too big error. I need to get the paper towels that come in a box and are easy to grab. I was using a roll. I estimate my TTL is about a minute and I am sure I can gain 15 secs with experience.

[stelph]

You mention it takes 90 seconds to do a test. Just a few thoughts on this.

I read a study somewhere that says blood lactate is correct up to about 45 seconds from the exercise finishing. Stelph posted it somewhere I believe.

Time to lactate should be recorded each time. I count this as how long it takes to get the drop of blood that will be tested on my finger (so finish dry, swab, dry, stab, 1st drop, wipe, second drop = TTL).

I believe I will get better. Anyway for the lactate steady state intensities it shouldn't introduce a too big error. I need to get the paper towels that come in a box and are easy to grab. I was using a roll. I estimate my TTL is about a minute and I am sure I can gain 15 secs with experience.

Although obviously it varies I tend to now be able to take samples in around 30 seconds, given that the Lactate Pro 2 strips are individually wrapped that means

1) Putting down erg handle (I tend to shake my testing hand a couple of times and flex the fingers coming into the last minute just to make sure blood is flowing)
2) Open strip packet and insert strip into lactate meter
3) Stab with lancet and dab away first blood, using the side of my ring finger just below the nail where the skin is thinner
4) sometime squeeze finger to make sure blood blob is big enough then take sample

All that takes less than 30 seconds, then wack on a plaster and 15 seconds later get a result - all easily doable in the 1:30 rest I set myself

[sander]

The plan asked for 5x1500m intensive session but I decided to swap sessions and do another lactate test. After yesterday's test, I decided that the next test would be to measure lactate after a steady state session at 200W. I slightly changed that to a 6x10min/2R to keep the protocol as close as possible to yesterday's.

Temperature in my rowing cellar was 8 degrees C. Nice, because this is also the place where I stock and cool my liquid carbs (read: beer).

Here are the data:

Code: Select all

Workout Summary - Nov 23, 2015
--|Total|-Total-|--Avg--|-Avg-|Avg-|-Avg-|-Avg
--|Dist-|-Time--|-Pace--|Watts|SPM-|-HR--|-DPS
--|14973|60:00.0|02:00.2|201.5|23.0|156.4|10.9
Workout Details
#-|EDist|-Etime-|-SPace-|Watts|SPM-|AvgHR|DPS-|Comments
01|02493|10:00.0|02:00.3|200.9|22.1|151.9|11.3|Lo
02|04985|20:00.0|02:00.4|200.6|22.7|154.2|11.0|0.9 mmol/L
03|07481|30:00.0|02:00.2|201.5|22.9|157.0|10.9|0.9 mmol/L
04|09975|40:00.0|02:00.3|201.1|23.3|157.8|10.7|Lo / 0.7 mmol/L
05|12474|50:00.0|02:00.0|202.4|23.5|158.0|10.6|1.1 mmol/L
06|14973|60:00.0|02:00.0|202.4|23.3|159.5|10.7|1.0 mmol/L

Again the first measurement was a failure because of a bad stab, not enough blood. This lactate testing is also a test of self-control. Of course I rowed the second interval angry and disappointed. After that interval I reverted to "multiple stabbing", i.e. stabbing at 2 or 3 spots on three fingers, to see if I could discover a good spot.

All good spots were on my little finger. Some milking was needed to get good drops.

Also, I watched in frustration how, during the row, the leaks started to produce blood. I took my right hand off the handle during the recovery and watched impressive blood drops forming during the first three minutes of the interval. Interestingly, also from "old" stab holes. Then, when it was time to measure, I would wipe and wash and wipe dry, then stab, and then it would take a long time for a usable droplet to develop. The cleaning and stabbing took about 20, 25 seconds. Waiting for the blood another 20 seconds.

Here is the bloody graph:



A couple of points. I am still suspicious of the results, but:

• It is possible that the long time between measurement and exercise causes the measurement to be off. But then, if I would be above the threshold, the lactate flushing from the muscles would cause blood lactate to increase initially. Measuring numbers well below 2.0 indicates I am really well in the aerobic training band.
• The 40 minute date point was a second strip, measured a bit later than usual, because I ruined the measurement on the first strip by accidentally switching off the meter during the measurement. So even if this data point is lower because it was measured later, then that would indicate that I am extremely good at flushing lactate ...
• It could be that by taking relatively long breaks I "reset" my lactate levels and I was basically doing 6 separate 10 minute intervals, instead of one 60 minute continuous row. That may be true, but that would also point to fast flushing of lactate during the breaks.

My current theory is that I have very happy mitochondria, busily oxidizing lactate and running their Krebs Cycle at maximum speed. That would also explain unusually low steady state lactate levels and a lactate threshold which seems to be at a higher percentage of 2k speed than my other fellow blogging rowers.
It is true that even in periods where I trained less frequently, before I took up rowing again, I have been a happy long distance runner. Not ultra long distance, but just churning out the 10k and 12k runs over a weekend, or even on the treadmill.

Still reluctant to say that I "own" the 200W as a steady state training intensity.

I will give the lactate tester a few days off. Tomorrow is the 5x1500m session, and then on Thursday or Saturday I will do a continuous 60 minute row at 200W and measure lactate afterwards.

Eager to hear your opinion, Free Sprits Lactate Training Gurus!

Oh, and Heart Rate Drift was about 2% during this row.

[gregsmith01748]

I posted this over on Sander's blog, but I thought it might be good to plug it here to move the discussion forward.

What an interesting picture. It does tend to make me think that you have very good aerobic endurance. It also looks like you have an awesome ability to clear the lactate that you generate.

The things that I find very interesting is that the drift within each of your 10 minute segments is quite steep, but you are recovered enough over a 2 minute rest to show no upward drift at all. The other data point is that your second strip at 40 minutes is significantly lower than your other tests. The last thing that doesn’t make much sense to me is the ratio between your steady state power and your assumed VO2Max (based on 2K power). I would guess that your actual lactate is a little, but not much higher in your reps.

If you are interested in a doing a little sports science, you could do a 20 minute piece at a bit higher power, maybe 210W, and then make measurements every minute or so afterwards to try to figure out how fast you clear lactate.

[sander]

I posted this over on Sander's blog, but I thought it might be good to plug it here to move the discussion forward.

What an interesting picture. It does tend to make me think that you have very good aerobic endurance. It also looks like you have an awesome ability to clear the lactate that you generate.

Thanks, Greg. That's exactly why I "spam" this forum with my messages. Hoping to learn from the group discussion. While cycling to work this morning (had to go slow because of freezing fog creating slippery road sections) I had a few thoughts:

• I am rowing in an unheated basement with the door open to the outside. Perhaps my relatively cold hands cause the slow blood flow that is haunting me? Anyway, I am almost through a drum of 6 lancets, so I could try and insert the next drum with a piece of carton so that the stab is deeper.
• Does the low temperature slow down the enzymes on the test strip, such that they generate fewer ions between the electrodes, so that I get lower readings? My basement is 8 degrees C but it could be colder closer to the floor where I prepare the line of test strips. Outside temperature was around -2C. I could test that by doing a reading in my basement, then going up to the bed room and immediately doing a reading with a strip that has been kept at normal room temperature. The operating temperature of my tester is 4 - 40 C, according to the spec.

I found following publication: http://brage.bibsys.no/xmlui/bitstream/ ... 20four.pdf
Measurements in the cold
According to the manufacturers both the Lactate Pro and the Accusport may be unreliable for
testing at temperatures below +10 °C. Our data suggest that if the instruments and the strips
are shielded from the cold except for the 20–30 s when the strips are inserted in the instrument
and blood or test solutions are applied to the strips, the reported values are not affected
by surrounding temperatures down to –20 °C. Thus, both of these pocketsize instruments may
be as suited for outdoor testing as for use in the laboratory. Admittedly, the variations in the
measurements were larger in the cold. That was probably caused by technical problems since
it was more difficult to add a drop of the test solutions from the nipple of the flasks than to
add a drop of blood from a fingertip to the strips, particularly for the Lactate Pro in the cold.

They kept the instruments and strips in a bag while measuring in a room that was at -21C. The temperature in the bag didn't go below +5C, but during the 30 seconds to take the measurement, the strip and instrument were exposed to the -21C temperature in the cold room. The important graph from the publication:

[valgozi]

Sander, I had same thoughts about your hands being cold and hence why you struggle to get a blood drop. Gloves or next ergo try it in a warmer room? Ergo room at my club was down to 11c this morning I don't think it gets much colder than this. I did read somewhere that someone keeps their tester inside the house when they erg in the garage (might be Ben Redman) because of issues with the cold and testing equipment.

So I had another try at a sub AeT 3x20min this morning. I think I may have cracked it, managed to keep Pace slow in middle part this time. Such a slow pace so difficult to go this slow. After 20mins 1.3mmol and at end 1.0mmol. Big race on Saturday (although weather is looking awful) so might stay around this level and get some more info at this intensity to hopefully keep legs fresh. Jealous of Sander 0.7. Now I know the pace I may try a longer row to try and get a lower ending number.

[sander]

Sander, I had same thoughts about your hands being cold and hence why you struggle to get a blood drop. Gloves or next ergo try it in a warmer room? Ergo room at my club was down to 11c this morning I don't think it gets much colder than this. I did read somewhere that someone keeps their tester inside the house when they erg in the garage (might be Ben Redman) because of issues with the cold and testing equipment.

So I had another try at a sub AeT 3x20min this morning. I think I may have cracked it, managed to keep Pace down in middle part this time. Such a slow pace so difficult to go this slow. After 20mins 1.3mmol and at end 1.0mmol. Big race on Saturday (although weather is looking awful) so might stay around this level and get some more info at this intensity to hopefully keep legs fresh. Jealous of Sander 0.7. Now I know the pace I may try a longer row to try and get a lower ending number.

What pace? I noticed 120W in your lactate Google doc but that was a few days ago. That's 2:23 pace.

Would you be willing to add the PB/SB image to your signature? You can generate it in the Utilities. I am always wondering what your 2k and 6k best efforts are. I believe you started to erg recently?

[valgozi]

Below AeT Pace was 2:21.7, 123 Watts. HR was a new low in the light blue for the whole of the row on the Polarbeat App. Cold and low intensity, my HR and lactates loved it! My MLSS (EDIT: MLSS is the wrong term sorry) which is 2:17.0, 136 Watts, this keeps me under 2.0mmol no matter what day and was at the point last week where it may need moving up.

Yeh sorry, I have added the table. Been rowing a while now (over 4 years) not really attempted PB's or even SB's for last two years just been trying to get those on the water. That is changing as I shall be regularly doing 2k's and 30mins throughout the winter and may throw some others into the mix, never done a 6k so I think I will have a crack at that soon.

I'm not as good an athlete as most of the people lactate testing are, I may actually have the slowest PB's of all lactate testers?! No real aerobic background. Lactate studies seem to always be with fairly well trained young individuals I'm a guinea pig as to what happens if you aren't that well trained a little older (Just Masters B) and train using lactate

At times I have questioned working out at the lactate intensities because it a little embarrassing going so slow at my club. Mike Wolverine Plan (is it Calveston) comments that you train at an intensity that you want to race at. So in a sense the body adapts to the intensity you are training at, rather than training at a intensity that is optimal to help the body adapt which is what should happen when training using lactate. There is a thought in my mind that I should train more at Threshold until I am faster then lactate maybe more appropriate. When following a plan with shorter UT2 rows (30mins) and lots of AT I seemed to go backwards and always was knackered.

Training at these intensities based on lactate hasn't really slowed me down, I think I am close to PB pace at 2k, the one I did a few weeks ago I definitely could have gone faster having not done one for a while meant I'd forgotten what to expect.

Everything I have read about lactate makes sense for muscle adaptions I just hit really low watts for everything

[sander]

Pace was around 2:22 (just need to upload)

I have added the table. Been rowing a while now (about 4 years) not really attempted PB's or even SB's for last two years just been trying to get those on the water. That is changing as I shall be regularly doing 2k's and 30mins throughout the winter and may throw some others into the mix, never done a 6k so I think I will have a crack at that soon.

Thanks! I think it is quite interesting to compare the different characters on this board and see where we are, where our 2.0 mmol/L steady state level is compared to our 2k power vs VO2 max power (if known from spiroergometry) etc.

Again, from a very crude model I estimated that my MLSS is around 211 W. The lactate measurements of the past few days actually seem to confirm that. Also, my steady state lactate at lower power seems to be low in comparison with others on this board, or the other way round my 2 mmol/L seems to be at a high percentage of VO2 max (or 2k power).

I would like to see these data for a few of us and discuss what the implications are for a polarized training strategy. I have been getting good results rowing at significantly lower paces than what now seems to be my 2.0 mmol/L level. On the other hand, I may just have a lower steady state level (production rate - removal rate) and my actual threshold may be at a lower level. Not at all sure that if I would find my 2.0 mmol/L level, I would be able to train at that level and improve.

We are all using slightly different measurement protocols, but we could agree on a minimum of shared ones. I would say most of us do the 3x20min with measurement after 20 min and 60 min, and this being an erg forum, we should all do a 2k and 6k (or 5k) score, and perhaps also an hour of power.

I am not interested in the absolute levels, just the ratios, and seeing if one can get some training recommendations from them.

[valgozi]

Ok so Ben Redman just blogged an article that really finally fills in the gaps for me definitely worth a read - http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/traini ... art-1.html

Oh its a very long read.

Combine it with what Boris has shared (his training plan on page 12 of this thread and all his wisdom) and I think it gives quite a comprehensive picture of how to train or whats going on when you train based on duration and intensity. The bodyrecomposition.com guy might be just a little high with his lactate numbers (for me anyways).

There is a thought in my mind that I should train more at Threshold until I am faster then lactate maybe more appropriate.

Ok I have sorted this thought now. So weird Ben blogged that article today.

In my own training I saw results based on the sweet spot training which until now I haven't been able to explain fully (I put improvements down to temperature reductions) but now I know I may have actually been in my sweet spot. Since starting lactate training this had been in my head and how I observe others and how they improve. Now I understand what may have been happening. [-o< =D>

[sander]

I thought Sweet Spot training is something like Threshold training? Isn't that the opposite of Polarized Training?

[valgozi]

Sweet spot is very similar in that limited to how many sessions you'd do a week and the person outlines that in the articles, a bit less intense than Threshold. Almost in the black hole that is sometimes said to be not a good place to workout. Along side the Sweet spot rows it sounds like recovery or sub AeT rows are mentioned. I am not saying its good!! Just its a very comprehensive write up in the article.

Its the duration and intensity relationship of training I have struggled with understanding, and what is best for people depending on time constraints. I get that now.

3-6 hours of polarised training a week won't work

i wrote that but meant his type of polarised training (there might be a difference as I think he is talking about near AeT or below and polarised done here is a bit higher on the lactates than AeT 'normally') and its around this level of training where sweet spot would work for most. Something maybe I need to think about when I have lazy weeks.

Boris was quite straight and to the point on page 12 with how much training was needed in a polarised plan. This article expands on that (although it doesn't call it polarised training, 80% easy is mentioned which suggests polarised) reaffirming quite a lot would be needed.

[sander]

Its the duration and intensity relationship of training I have struggled with understanding, and what is best for people depending on time constraints. I get that now. 3-6 hours of polarised training a week won't work and its around this level of training where sweet spot would work for most. Something maybe I need to think about when I have lazy weeks.

Thanks, I am going to read the series first before I comment, then.

[dr3do]

My MLSS which is 2:17.0, 136 Watts, this keeps me under 2.0mmol no matter what day and was at the point last week where it may need moving up.

No. This is not your MLSS* (maximum lactate steady state). MLSS is highly individual and can be in the range of 2-8 mmol/L, but usually/often/commonly is found at 2.x-4.x mmol/L.

*= The maximal lactate steady state (MLSS) is defined as the highest blood lactate concentration (MLSSc) and work load (MLSSw) that can be maintained over time without a continual blood lactate accumulation.